Curse

spray04 · Feb 01, 2011, 03:41 AM // 03:41

As a monk, how do I go about countering a ranger with broad head arrow sitting on me? And what about the other forms of daze? i.e. stunning strike, fevered dreams. This is in RA.

Infectious · Feb 01, 2011, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Dodge the BHA ...
Daze is a bad gimmick.

Roen · Feb 01, 2011, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Yep, dodge it. Timing your kiting/strafing to make the ranger miss.

spray04 · Feb 01, 2011, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Thanks. How about after getting dazed? I switch to my 40/40 set in hopes of being able to cast a few times normally, but most of the time I'm stuck dying or watching my teammates die...

Roen · Feb 01, 2011, 04:34 AM // 04:34

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_...removal_skills

You need to remove the condition. Quickly.

You're a monk, so consider Purge Signet or Purge Conditions. The signet takes no energy but 2 seconds and with dazed that's 4 seconds so you could be dead by then. Purge Conditions takes 1/4 second so even dazed you can activate it in 1/2 second.

spray04 · Feb 01, 2011, 04:41 AM // 04:41

just that draw conditions is by far the best skill i've used to keep my team clean. bringing another condition removal, like contemplation of purity, still doesn't solve the problem when i've got a ton of conditions on me...

Roen · Feb 01, 2011, 04:42 AM // 04:42

So use Draw Conditions to bring all conditions to yourself, then hit Purge Conditions on yourself to remove them all. If you're dealing with a lot of conditions, consider Martyr. It's an elite so you'd be giving up WoH or whatever you're using there, but it transfers ALL allies conditions to you, then Purge Conditions quickly removes them.

Fate Crusher · Feb 01, 2011, 04:48 AM // 04:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

How about after getting dazed? I switch to my 40/40 set in hopes of being able to cast a few times normally, but most of the time I'm stuck dying or watching my teammates die...

You can time your patient, since it's a quarter cast, so it goes through in between a ranger's/para's auto attack.

Signets are also not affected by daze, so SoR could be useful.

But yes, dodging it would be the best option. Any ranger with a brain who runs BHA will bring cover conditions so if dazes is covered, there's no point even trying to clear it, it will take too long.

I guess you can also use the environment to your advantage and hide behind objects and also force positioning. But this goes without saying, really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roen

So use Draw Conditions to bring all conditions to yourself, then hit Purge Conditions on yourself to remove them all. If you're dealing with a lot of conditions, consider Martyr. It's an elite so you'd be giving up WoH or whatever you're using there, but it transfers ALL allies conditions to you, then Purge Conditions quickly removes them.

This is a terrible suggestion lol. Contemplation of Purity and a few enchantments (Vigorous, Guardian, Patient) can do this without sacrificing WoH. Just wow......

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

just that draw conditions is by far the best skill i've used to keep my team clean. bringing another condition removal, like contemplation of purity, still doesn't solve the problem when i've got a ton of conditions on me...

The only condition spread you should be worried about is deep wound and poison. If there is a blinder, you must be smart with drawing (watching the field to draw instantly) and when to say look, i cant draw anymore because you're eating my energy. EG: Poison on your mesmer? Who cares, he's not being attacked so it's only degen. Pop a WoH later on and saves you time and energy, allows you to follow damage on your ele which just got a sin chain on him (where you need draw to save him from deep wound and degen).

Hope this makes sense, it's very late here lol.

Caw521 · Feb 01, 2011, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Quote:

You're a monk, so consider Purge Signet or Purge Conditions. The signet takes no energy but 2 seconds and with dazed that's 4 seconds so you could be dead by then. Purge Conditions takes 1/4 second so even dazed you can activate it in 1/2 second.

Uh, I don't believe signets are affected by daze, so it'd still remain at a 2 second activation.

I suppose you could pre-Purifying Veil yourself and remove it as soon as you get dazed or use something weird like Antidote Signet. Life Sheath may work too, but you'd have to be running a LS bar.

Delete HB Already · Feb 01, 2011, 04:58 AM // 04:58

You can use bonnetis with mending touch to counter daze but I think that bringing either purge condis or purge sig just for daze is not worth it. I don't bring bonnetis when I monk and I don't bring mending touch other, I only bring draw for condition removal. You have to be able to dodge a BHA but when you are dazed you typically spam a short cast spell such as patient spirit and try to use it between the other teams attacks. Running behind a wall also helps a little until the enemy catches up to you. Vigorous spirit works well vs daze because it's a good way to constantly heal your team without really casting so if vigorous spirit is up, it can heal your team while you cannot cast much, which may or may not be enough to survive. It's also easy to apply to your team when dazed cause of it's short cast.

I don't run the best build against daze but it is still okay with patient and vigorous spirit. I could easily make my build better against daze if I wanted but it wouldn't be as good against non daze as my original build. I sometimes lose matches to daze teams that I would have won if I ran a better build vs daze but I accept the loss and tell myself that my build is still better overall. That is the proper mind set in my opinion.

I Jonas I · Feb 01, 2011, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Don't listen to these people suggesting that you take terrible skills to counter Daze. The way to counter Daze (and indeed, pretty much everything else in guildwars) is awareness.

Like if you look at the skills that can apply daze for any significant amount of time they have a lot of preparation involved. Fevered Dreams needs to have two primer conditions for a tiny daze duration, Broadhead arrow and Spear Swipe require you to be right next to the person or very close to it, Beguiling Haze is a shadow step and therefore has a super long aftercast where you can just walk away from him, Stunning Strike is 10 adrenaline and has a condition primer and is a projectile as well (guardian yourself as soon as the previous daze duration wore off in preparation for when he uses the skill next, click to move to dodge his attack, etc).

If you mess up and actually get daze on you you should do everything that you can to mitigate the damage that you take (as if you weren't doing that already). Camp your shield set. If you are a Mo/W you should be running disciple's insignia's and have like 120 armor and should be able to ride out the daze no problem. You should have patient spirit and sig of rejuv, both of which can be used under dazed without issue. Disciplined Stance and Balanced Stance are also quite good (and the former can be used to block attacks that cause dazed). If you do need to cast a spell longer than 1/4 sec, switch to your 40/40 set and cancel cast (if you have the energy) until you get a HCT.

The counters to Daze are not "take this skill" it's more like "when you notice X, do Y." This game isn't that difficult, really

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

This is a terrible suggestion lol. Contemplation of Purity and a few enchantments (Vigorous, Guardian, Patient) can do this without sacrificing WoH. Just wow......

Patient spirit no longer heals you if it is removed early, so that doesn't work anymore

Roen · Feb 01, 2011, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

This is a terrible suggestion lol. Contemplation of Purity and a few enchantments (Vigorous, Guardian, Patient) can do this without sacrificing WoH. Just wow......

Dude's having problems. I'm offering free suggestions. I don't monk and you get what you pay for.

spray04 · Feb 01, 2011, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

If you mess up and actually get daze on you you should do everything that you can to mitigate the damage that you take (as if you weren't doing that already). Camp your shield set. If you are a Mo/W you should be running disciple's insignia's and have like 120 armor and should be able to ride out the daze no problem. You should have patient spirit and sig of rejuv, both of which can be used under dazed without issue. Disciplined Stance and Balanced Stance are also quite good (and the former can be used to block attacks that cause dazed). If you do need to cast a spell longer than 1/4 sec, switch to your 40/40 set and cancel cast (if you have the energy) until you get a HCT.

Thanks for all the advice; on this note I have another question, using all disciples insignia, I have 545hp on my spear and shield set, is this hp too low? (I'm using a major rune)

Fate Crusher · Feb 01, 2011, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Jonas I

Patient spirit no longer heals you if it is removed early, so that doesn't work anymore

Oh I know, and I love Anet for balancing Patient so well. But I was just referring to my bar for RA and listing enchantments (apart from veil which you shouldn't be sacrificing for CoP lol). You still benefit from CoP with the 3rd enchantment, more removals and more heals than not bothering with throwing patient on.
I don't play with CoP anymore btw haha, haven't touched that skill since boon prots. And that makes me a little sad.

Daze really is only a problem if you don't see it coming. As Jonas has said, if you know it's coming, you can prepare to mitigate as much as you can, kite and let your team know what's going on. Which is why guardian wins RA!

KPEATOP · Feb 01, 2011, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Patient/Draw conditions/WoH/Contemp. of purity/Vig. spirit/Spotless mind/Dol sig/Bonetti

1. Daze appliers such as BHA rangers, W/P dazers or FD mesmers can be countered. Dodge, break the daze apply chain or get ready with enchantemnts so that you can gain health via spear attacks or patient spirit
2. The BEST thing to do if you ALLOW them to cast daze on you is to try to place patient spirit that can be casted between the bow attacks or spear attacks. If the ranger is close to you and scores easy interrupts then you are not moving - MOVE BABY..... M O V E
3. The other option is Contemp. of purity - if you have Vig. spirit on you + patient you can get rid of a lot of SHIT on you if you manage to cast it and it`s 1/4 cast

infi · Feb 01, 2011, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by spray04

Thanks for all the advice; on this note I have another question, using all disciples insignia, I have 545hp on my spear and shield set, is this hp too low? (I'm using a major rune)

it is too low. You need 580 hp on your shield set. Drop major runes for minors. An go to lemming's page on wiki to get right equip for monks.

urania · Feb 01, 2011, 08:27 AM // 08:27

as a woh mo i use contemplation of purity to counter daze (works in pretty much all cases apart from skullcrack sins that cover it instantly with jagged strike, but sometimes, if you're fast you can cop it then too, given you happen to have 2 enchants on you already).

its all about predicting and knowing what you're up against, tbh (and also about expecting the worst and know ahead how to deal with it the prediction comes true).
if you see a w/p chances that its a spear chucker with stun strike are fairly high, unless you see him run towards you or someone else with a hammer (so they only have wild throw from the spear line, but might still daze with overbearing). if you see a a/w that doesnt really use his elite for the first 10 or more seconds of the match its very likely its either skull crack with exhausting assault or dev hammer+hbash (or even shove+hbash) with horns of the ox.
if you see a paragon running towards you its spear swipe, so just prepatient and previg yourself and cop it off or run away if your team isnt pressured. if the paragon will always inflict bleeding and afterwards cripple you, chances that a stunspear will follow are almost 100%.
as far as bha is concerned, there's not (m)any good rangers that still run it (or conc shot), but if you happen to come against them you can either try dodging it (if they're stupid enough to use it from full distance, its easy; if they have death charge or just run into point-blank position then prepatient yourself and cop it or try your luck with close range dodge (kinda trickier)), but sometimes you just cannot dodge it because you have to cast to keep someone alive, so in that case, run behind an obstacle, put up patient (vig is supposed to be up on you all the time if you carry cop) and cop it off. if there are no obstacles, swap to your 40/40 heal set to get a fc on patient and then cop it off.

but you can also choose to keep the daze on you - when you're for example running a melandru's resilience boon prot. unles daze wll be the only cond in opp team it will barely matter you'll be dazed and will just keep your energy regen up.

moreover, there's a shitload of foul feast n/r blood necs or n/w curse/blood necs around, so daze is by far not as effective as it used to be, but if i had to evaluate what type of daze is most dangerous (well, hardest to fight against without off mo removal), then itd be spear chucker w/p or skull crack sins. how effective daze will be also depends on how good the rest of the dazer's team is - if they can put a lot of pressure on your team (hexes, cond pressure from the blood necs or/and poison spread, high melee damage output) then daze is very effective.

last but not least, if you have a r/mo on your team ping your daze like mad and even run up to them, if need be. some actually mend it off you.

Rites · Feb 01, 2011, 08:44 AM // 08:44

make urself a ranger secondary, use melandru's resilience, then draw conditions, thus you are being healed while your party loses the conditions

a para secondary has cautery signet, but causes burning on urself

I Hate Chips · Feb 01, 2011, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by infi

it is too low. You need 580 hp on your shield set. Drop major runes for minors. An go to lemming's page on wiki to get right equip for monks.

I dont got580hp on shield set, +5 armor ftw!~!!

awry · Feb 01, 2011, 03:18 PM // 15:18

You counter a daze ranger by using obstacles to your full advantage. I play daze ranger sometimes and I'll just say that once you got a good set up (33% ias, snare, daze, shadowstep) it'll be hard to even pull off patient, once you die your body can be camped with daze the seond you revive too. At this point, it's a matter of your teammates supporting you and pressuring the daze ranger out of range or at least enough to stop training you with arrows.